Posts Tagged ‘Lutheranism’

In a recent interview, Clint Eastwood spoke on his opinions on gay marriage.  He said we have more important things to talk about.  I like his sentiments on that political football.  I’d like to extend them to the recent Bill Nye the Science guy comment about evolution.

Bill Nye recently posted a  short video on creationism in America.  He later posted a follow up to defend his statements.  This  created a lot of inflamed responses from the creationists wings of Christianity.  Particularly Worldview Everlasting’s recent youtube response.  Jonathan Fisk, host of Worldview Everlasting, is evidently a young earth creationist (YEC).  So what do we make of this pair of dueling internet memes?

The first issue is whether or not Bill Nye is attacking religion.  I’d let the reader watch the two videos and ask yourself this: can you tell Bill Nye’s religious views are?  I honestly could not.  Bill Nye might be as a mad dog of an atheist as Hitchens.  If he was, he showed remarkable restraint.  There was no accusation that religious people inherently are destructive.  He did not broad brush Christians with fringe, cultish, wackos.  He did not make a mockumentary about religious people.  He did not make an asinine expose based on a flat-out lies.  In fact, he kept a laser beam focus on what he discussed.  It’s down to a few points:

  1. It is ironic that creationism is so popular in a technologically advanced society.
  2. If part of the population does not believe in evolution, it holds society back as a whole.
  3. Belief in creationism faces a lot of problems, such as the fossil record and star distance.
  4. Children should not learn creationism because we need scientifically literate voters.

In his follow up CNN video, Nye clarified himself.  He’s really not out to get at anyone’s religion.  He thinks that it is important to believe evolution, because that’s important for a democratic society.

Now, let’s move on the Pastor Jonathan Fisk’s response.  First, let me note this was an 18 minute video response to a two minute promotional video.  That alone should raise some eyebrows, but it does not mean that his response is off.  His youtube fans have said that he understood Bill Nye correctly.  Did he?  For sake of brevity, I’m choosing only a few points to respond to.

At his opening, Jonathan Fisk misinterprets Bill Nye.  Bill Nye says that a denial of evolution is unique to the United States and then says that we are most technologically advanced nation.  Fisk jumps at the word “unique” and charges Bill Nye with a factual error.  He continues to argue that the point about technology has no logical relation.  This is unfair, uncharitable and nit-picky.  The principle of charity -which says you must interpret the opposition’s arguments in the most generous way possible- dictates that Bill Nye probably did not mean that only Americans deny evolution.  I think he probably means that when compared to other first world countries, this is the only one where it so endemic.  Secondly, the issue of technology is part of the problem that Bill Nye wishes to discuss.  He probably feels it is ironic.  That interpretation of Bill Nye’s opening statements is more charitable than Fisk’s video.  The beginning isn’t the only time that Jonathan Fisk violates the principle of charity.  He unfairly presents Bill Nye’s comments about tectonic plates as well.

About three minutes into his response, Jonathan Fisk asserts that the study of science has roots in Christianity.  After all, Christians believed that God created a regularity in nature.  Monks began to look closely at the natural world for that reason.  Thus, QED, the intellectual foundation of science owes more to Christianity than Bill Nye realizes.  After all, who founded the first hospitals?  Bill Nye should not act that Christians contributed nothing to western civilization.  Atheists do not own science.  However, Bill Nye never discussed whether atheists or Christians owned science.  He never asserted that Christians did not contribute to western civilization.  He never discussed the historical and intellectual foundations of science.  He never brought up the metaphysical questions of “why is the universe ordered?”  This makes Jonathan Fisk’s statements completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Reverend Fisk did interpret Bill Nye correctly on at at least one point.  Bill Nye said that if you do not believe in evolution, your world becomes overly complicated.  One example he gave was the age of stars and the star distance problem.  For anyone who is unfamiliar with this, the argument is like this: light travels at a constant speed.  We measure the distance of stars by light-years.  We observe stars that are greater than six-thousand light-years away, therefore the Universe must be older than six thousand years.  Additionally, a star’s life cycle lasts billions of years.  We observe stars that are different stages in this dramatically long life cycle.

Fisk’s response is this:

I’ve never been able to wrap my head around this one: that atheists can’t believe … that God created a star that’s halfway burned…  That light could only start where that star is.  He couldn’t also just make light where earth is, from the star.

This is a common creationist response.  God created a half-way burned star, and created some light-on-its-way from the star.  This additional theory is what what overcomes the star distance problem for the creationist theory.

It’s interesting to note that even Answers in Genesis does not endorse this response.  But more to point consider this: what evidence is there that God created light-on-its-way?  Sure, I can imagine that God did that, but that is not the same as saying that he did.  Is there a verse somewhere in Genesis 1-11 that covers that?  Is there some kind of empirical data that would lead us to believe that that?  Did the apostle Paul cover it in his letter to the Ephesians?  In other words, is there any reason to believe that light was created between earth and a distant star other than young earth creationism?

For all of his sneering at Bill Nye’s poor logic, I think it is fair to point out ad hoc reasoning here.  Ad Hoc translates “add this” from Latin.  Basically, if your theory (in this case, Young Earth Creationism) is in trouble, you simply imagine another theory and “add this” to tape over an obvious problem.  The geocentric astronomers appealed to ad hoc reasoning too.  They believed that everything in the sky moved in perfect circles around earth.  However, they observed a problem: Mars and the other planets appeared to move back and forth.  So they ad hoc‘ed epicycles: That is, the planets must move in circles around earth, and then smaller circles too.  Thus, the problem was overcome.

Ad hoc reasoning isn’t always bad, but using it too much is like plugging so many corks into a leaky boat.  Eventually, you realize that you’d feel safer if you get into the less ad hoc boat.  I do not know if Reverend Fisk realizes how bad light-on-its-way makes young earth creationism look.

This isn’t to say that everything Bill Nye said is beyond question.  How important is evolution for a voting populace?  Some important political issues in our time are immigration, bank regulations, free-speech in a digital age, student debts, and healthcare.  It is not clear to me, at all, how one’s belief or disbelief in evolution affects an opinion on any of those important matters.  Additionally, Bill Nye believes if you don’t believe in evolution, you can’t do any other science either -espeically practical things like medicine and engineering.  This also not clear to me.  It seems to me that you could be a genius at architecture and be rather clueless about evolution.  Medical research is probably a lot closer to evolutionary biology.  Yet even here, I think doctor could be theoretically inconsistent, but practically a good physician.  I don’t care if my doctor believes the earth is six thousand years old.  I care that he prescribes the right medicine with some decent bedside manner.

Interestingly, I feel that both Nye and Reverend Fisk are showing their tendency to generalize.  Nye equates a belief in evolution with upright citizenship in a democratic republic.  Fisk equates young earth creationism with all of Christianity.

I cannot say much for Nye on this, but in regards to Fisk I’ll say this: I suspect he realizes that he does not speak for all Christians.  I suspect that he realizes that his views aren’t a majority.  Fisk might tow the line for the LCMS, but he probably doesn’t even speak for all of Lutheranism.

In this brings me back to Clint Eastwood.  There’s a lot of things Christians can get passionate about.  There are a lot of things that are important to discuss, explore, and to do.  When it comes to science and faith, issues such as NOMA, Augustinian Science, or that razor thin line between metaphysical naturalism and methodological naturalism are all worthy points of discussion.

YEC, however, is no hill to die on.  Like Clint Eastwood said, we got more important things to talk about.


Hateful preachers are like cassette tapes. Why do people still listen to them?

A few years ago, I criticized Pastor Mark Driscoll’s angry, self-righteous, antics. At the time, I had only read praises of his popularity, and thought I was one of the few critics. Turns out I am far from alone. The entire zeitgeist of Christian blogs is starting to turn on this guy. Examples include Rachel Held Evans and sojouners magazine. Free speech and the internet topple tyrants: whether they rule Middle Eastern countries or Seattle area churches.

Is it over the top to call Driscoll a tyrant?

You can judge it for yourself if you read the story of “Andrew” in part one and part two. Please read through it in its entirety, but here’s the skinny if your in a rush. A young guy named Andrew attended Mars Hill. He became engaged to one of the elder’s daughters, but then fell into sexual sin with another girl. He confessed to his fiance, his small group leader, and others of his own volition. The reaction was not positive. They demanded that he sign and agree to a contract, in which he would have to share -in detail- his sins and was forbidden to date. Andrew felt that this was both invasive, creepy, and voyeuristic. He decided to leave Mars Hill. When he announced this, a letter was circulated to the Mars Hill community, detailing his “lack” of repentance. It detailed instructions on how members of Mars Hill were to treat him. According to Matthew 18:17.

Here is the verse:

If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But he does not listen to you take one or two more with you so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every face may be confirmed. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven. -Matthew 18:15-18 NASB

Now, Driscoll thinks that last verse means that you should shun someone from your community and publicly shame them. I ask you though, how did Jesus treat gentiles and tax collectors?

What makes the Driscoll method of church discipline so horrid is not that it is a bit cult like, but that Andrew was doing the right thing. No, not that he cheated on his fiance and lied about, but that he actually had the courage to come out and confess it. So is this how confession is supposed to work? That we should muster courage to confess, and then become chastised for it?

I’ve already discussed what I think confession could look like for evangelical protestants and why it directs us to what people already want their churches to be. Here though, is the Book of Common Prayer. The church leader responds to someone like Andrew with this statement:

Our Lord Jesus Christ, who has left power to his Church to absolve all sinnerrs who truly repent and believe in him of his great mercy forgive you all your offense; and by his authority committed to me, I absolve you from all your sins: in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Likewise, if a Lutheran minister says something like this after a prayer of public confession:

Almighty God, our heavenly Father, has had mercy upon us and for the sake of the sufferings, death, and resurrection of his dear Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, fogives us all our sins. As a Minister of the Church of Christ and by his authority, I therefore declare unto you who do truly repent and believe in him, the entire forgiveness of all your sins: In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

In both cases, the reference to “authority” is an allusion to Matthew 18:18 (“whatever you bind on earth…”). Leaders, ministers, and lay people are given an “authority.” We are given the authority to represent Christ to penitent sinners like Andrew. How should we represent him?

Andrew confessed his sin. He confessed because the Holy Spirit convicted him. There was no “finding out” and no coercion. He confessed it to the person most hurt by it. He went further confessed it to leaders. Mark Driscoll does not seem to think this enough “true repentance.” Forgiveness must be earned. Sign the fuckin’ contract, or we’ll shame you.

How would you do it?

I will admit, I have heard only a few confessions in my life. Many people reading this have probably heard more. I have never been involved in a addiction recovery group. I am completely ignorant of how church discipline is handled in charismatic circles. Neither am I a pastor or official leader. Of course, you don’t have to be to hear a confession. I’d like to know though, how would you react to Andrew? What is your church’s policy? How would your leaders react to some dark secret a member shared with them?

In closing, I am happy that Andrew had the courage to not only confess, but to leave a church that he felt abused by. That could not have been easy, since he is several states away from home and family. If he ever wants to, he could do what many evangelical diaspora do. He could check out a local Lutheran, Episcopalian, or otherwise “liberal” protestant church.

We’re a pretty fun bunch, actually.

This is for Jonathan, as I hope to answers it question quite well.  It will also help anyone who asks, “what is Antinomianism?”

A flow chart

If you are tired of being holy this is for you.